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I have to say the notion of all three is a turn on for me but I can honestly say there is any benefit. Maybe the opposite is true, maybe it is destructive. It certainly is destructive to relationships where it changes the social image of men to their women. Once you put on panties can she ever get that out of her head? and then of the relationship ends where on earth will the man find fulfillment? I'd like to air this openly with men and women to get it out in the open.
If you look at human needs from the standpoint of Maslows' pyramid, where would these fall given they were needs. Sissification seems to be getting in touch with female things, being used as he sees women being used perhaps or maybe a gender make over. Dress up is a common practice for all who costume. Even my son dressed in drag at my daughters wedding dinner with several of the grooms men. But dress-up is in play and drag implies it is gay not feminine. Humiliation might be an effort at penitents, an effort to reach some kind of emptiness, an effort at becoming humble or a self destruction; perhaps a cry for help; or maybe a way to reenact a past issue or like a prophet enact a future one. Cuckolding might be a way to reach selflessness, show a woman she has real freedom, get out of having to perform, end the question of impotence or get humiliation; it might simply be for sex. There MIGHT be reasons for them that are on the path to being self actualized. A men and his women would want to analyze that and weight it against the possible risks to self-image and self-esteem.
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AboutFLR.com has no formal stand or slant on cuckolding. It is a lifestyle choice made as part of relationships where women enjoy the freedom to have other partners. Our society has a double standard about women sleeping with more than one man. Men doing it are in a M√©nage √† trois and women doing it with two men are nymphs or sluts. That is just wrong. Men and women should enjoy the same standard. If it is okay for one gender then it is okay for both and if not okay that will be true for both. FLR is about women leading men, most of whom don't want to participate in cuckolding, but a percentage do and should do so freely and without social pressure. There are risks to multiple partners which couples should discuss before making these choices.
Prickly Pear I do agree that the percentage of women that want to have a cuckolding situation in their relationship is the minority. But I wonder if the double standard (and worry about being labeled a 'slut') isn't a part of the reason the majority of women shy away from it. I think many more people would try this if not for the social taboo. FWIW, I see where a man asking his wife to cuckold him might be confusing because it does seem like a mixed message (I love you, but want for you to be with other men). But I think that if more women understood that there are many men that see the surrender of sexual freedom to the wife in a marriage as a loving act of sacrifice on the husband's part then many more women might be interested. Unfortunately, cuckoldry has been tainted by the same negative forces that have poisoned FLR (internet and other porn in particular), and turned cuckoldry into a fetishized product.
Tempesto I disagree with you in so many ways about cuckoldry being in a similar situation to FLR. First historically the only ones who could have lovers outside of marriage were the rich as arranged marriages paved the way for arranged discreet lovers in high society. Men and women have been _ucking their slaves and servants for generations too. In this new cuckoldry women are supposed to have sex while their mate watches? or not which defeats the idea of discretion. Second, cuckoldry fails the test of logic, psychology and sociology -- first the test of logic; if a man sets his hair on fire then jumps 100 stories into a river to put it out what logic stream did that man follow? Well it is the same kind of argument that says more women who do this if they tried it. Next the test of psychology: the needs fulfilled by coupling up which are connection, intimacy, higher connection and relationship security are all defeated by cuckoldry. Last the test of sociology where the basic premise of coupling is one of fidelity. What cuckoldry is - is a fetish which requires no logic, psychology or sociology for people to enjoy it; like all fetishes, people just do and there is little in the way of logic, psychology or sociology that can defend or deny "just lusting after it". What en fail to see if cuckoldry defeats two elements essential to FLR 'the drive towards intimacy and dependence of men' and 'women thinking of it (as in female led)'. Bottom like if you like it enjoy but don`t try and make a case for it because the case goes against it. I dont think most relationships will survive when cuckoldry is in play becuase of the rules I already discribed.
Prickly Pear My wife cucks me often with other men and has me participate and in no way does this make me submissive. It is just a natural sexual behavior which happens to be fun and juicy
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what about boot camp type training? Humiliation is used there successfully.
I think being sissified shows women that you are there for their amusement, that you are a submissive and want to be an effeminate male for her or their amusement. Wearing panties does this, so does wearing a frilly apron. It is humiliating and puts the women clearly in charge. How, I ask you, can a man be in charge if he is dressed in only frilly panties, or an sissy apron, or even in a sundress. The "dress" on a man affirms for a woman that she is in full control. This is so true when she is then fully dressed in her jeans or whatever. Personally, it is deeply satisfying. She wears the pants and I am vulnerable, exposed as a sissy, under her control. And to do so with her friends around...oh boy! Complete FLR affirms that women have won the sexual revolution and are "on top".
ForHerAmusement I don't agree with your assessment. I don`t think there is any thrill for most women in sissification of men. Most women we have surveyed don't want men to wear women's clothes nor become effeminate. Quite the opposite, women want men to remain confident though submissive. Please continue to enjoy it and be well but your pleasure falls to a extremely small group of people mostly men and most women don't want to play along.
I really respect your comment. The survey at this site says 11% of women enjoy having men dress in feminine clothes. This is a small group, but it is something. As there are a bunch of other surveys here which suggest more than a small group of men enjoy it. Again, thanks for commenting on my post.
Ann I couldn't agree more! I think this is a male driven fantasy, and have never found a woman that had any interest in a sissy/feminized man. I am not saying that it isn't possible. But the driving force on this seems to be men that are into it rather than women that like it.
ForHerAmusement It sounds like you are having fun with it and the idea of becoming effeminate. This kind of behavior/practice is on the far end of the spectrum of FLR and nor really part of the FLR body of knowledge. I agree that humiliation makes a good training tool in a boot camp approach where she wants to break barriers and that sissification might make that point but as a lifestyle element it is undesirable to most and to most women a turn off. Most men would have to visit a domme to get this fantasy fulfilled.
Thank you, also, for commenting. It is fun. I do not advocate it beyond play. We are not into the "boot camp" idea. And definitely not into S&M. This is about mutual understanding and respect. Glad I could make that point here.
We have been married for ten years and before we got married my wife told me that she had never been monogamous to any of her boyfriends or her first husband but would try to be faithfull to me. That didn't last a month! We went out to a party and I lost track of her so I went into the bedroom and there she was naked and on top of another guy. Strangely, I was so excited watching her that I actualy came in my pants without even touching it! After they where done she noticed my soiled jeans and asked if I enjoyed it. It took me a couple of years to truely accept the fact that I enjoy my wife with other men but when I did, and she accepted that I am truly OK with it our lives became wonderfull, always searching for some guy for her. AND, I never even think about straying on her. IF both of you are truly OK with her having sex with other men then go for it. Be sure both of you accept the fact that she enjoys sex with other men.
Happy cuck Sounds like you enjoy it. I think many men have this fantasy. make me wonder how life might be with that dynamic. I am concerned about the quality of life men might have.
Happy cuck I find this creepy, why is it guys focus on this? I'd love to hear from other women on this
Guest I find it creepy too. This is one of my major doubts about dating submissive men. A lot of them seem to have very perverted fantasies and I don't mean perverted in a good way. Some types of humiliation and degradation are sexy but crossdressing and cuckolding are *major* turn offs to me. It seems gay to me. I have nothing against gay people but I only want to be with a 100% heterosexual man. If a guy feels humiliation from dressing in women's clothes, doesn't that mean that he thinks women are weaker and inferior? Otherwise, why should he feel ashamed to be a woman? He is probably a secret misogynist. So I would never date a guy who got turned on by crossdressing. Cuckolding is a sign of low self esteem. A lot of the time, the cuckold secretly fantasies about the "other man" which is gay too. Besides, how can anyone expect to have a real intimacy in their relationship if its not exclusive? I could never respect a man like that. He would be used but never loved which ultimately wouldn't satisfy me because I need to love and adore my submissive. To be worthy of my love, he has to be a real man who is *proud* to be submissive, loves to serve me, lives to serve me, submission should be his identity.
Happy cuck Congratulations! I am envious (in the best possible way) that you have such a wonderful relationship. I know that a lot of people don't understand why we cuckolds want this, and I can understand their confusion. However, the yearning for your woman only increases for the cuckold when he knows she is free to actively be with other men. It isn't for everyone, like any other interest. But for those that are curious, it can be a wonderful thing. Build a solid relationship first, take time, assess, communicate, and if you are both in alignment still, perhaps it is for you.
My husband found this discussion and told me about it. He just posted a response and wanted me to include my views. It took me a long time to accept that he truly enjoys me being with other men and to believe that he loves me even though I have sex with guys while he watches. And that is it, I have sex with them but I make love to my husband. As for the term cuckold, well call it what you will but I don't think a derogatory term for it really helps the discussion.
Wfe of cuckold husband It is my understanding that in level 3 or 4 women can set up sex how ever they want with the agreement of their husband. I always doubt these kinds of posts when I see them because most women don't want extra marital sex. but if you do enjoy. and BTW wife has an 'i' in it and most women know that.
Guest In Level 3, most women who choose to have sex with other partners do not consider it extramarital sex. Since they are sharing every detail with their husband, its building a stronger relationship between the two of them.
Wfe of cuckold husband I am glad to hear that you took the time to consider trying cuckoldry. It gives me reason to hope that I will find the right woman! Like your husband, I am a man that yearns to be cuckolded. To ask your wife to cuckold you is an act to show that you desire her needs and desires over your own. It is an act of loving your wife so much, of trusting her so much, that you have faith that NOTHING will break the bonds that connect you! I see it as the top of the pyramid, the most loving sacrifice that a husband can offer his wife. But obviously to get there requires a LOT of work to build a strong relationship first. Enjoy!
Wife of cuckold husband i like the way you put that just sex i hope my wife will do this for me sometime it as to be great to enjoy watching your wife with a guy with me wearing my chastity device
Steve1957 Just because you'd love to do it does not make it beneficial. You only get one chance at it, so you can do it well or do it wrong. First prove to yourself that it is good for you, then do it.
"Just because you'd love to do it does not make it beneficial. You only get one chance at it, so you can do it well or do it wrong. First prove to yourself that it is good for you, then do it." ... thank you for that reply i wrote what i was thinking at the time (thinking out-loud) i like to see my wife enjoy herself with a guy if she wanted to as far as sissified i enjoy wearing
Steve1957 At the risk of being negative, I find I need to jump in here because this conversation is going a way we won't support. If you are trying to say it is beneficial for men in relationships to dress as women or be humiliated, I say bunk, you are way off base! Dressing as a woman is a fetish. Fetish is for fun. Fetish is not part of relationships growing. Fetish is only for distraction and entertainment. If you enjoy it , enjoy in peace; but there is only one real benefit; your being happy doing it - that said, if it makes your wife happy she need to tell us so other women can learn. I am not saying this to belittle or degrade your thoughts, they are good thoughts,; but they are outside the discussion of FLR.
It is hard for me to imagine building a stronger relationship by extramarital sex. It would seem to be the opposite
How do I get my wife to agree to shave my legs; she thinks it is too feminine; I want her to do it to assert her authority.
Guest So you want your wife to agree to do something for/to you that you want/desire that she doesn't like or want to do as a way of asserting her authority? Surely there is a huge logical flaw here If I'm wrong or out of line here, I would love to know so and why. Thanks Chris
Guest Swimmers wax their body hair as do models, big deal, if you want hair removal - stop talking and just do it. Hair is hair.
We had several messages from men interested in feminization as a life style. We explained that FLR and feminization are really different ideas. What that means is FLR allows men to keep their gender roles and socialization if it suits the couple. Feminization is really more about being a caterpillar wanting to become a butterfly and the process is outside the norm of human experience and not very attractive to women for men to go through.
Ladyjolynn sounds cool and nice , not my cup of tea but well said
If a man wants to wear a dress and heels then he sould be allowed to after all we wear trousers
Amy1991 That does not mean I have to like it and I still can be turned off by it to.
Why is it so hard to find a guy who is a "clean slate"? Submissive men always have the most perverse fantasies. I'd rather train him into the perfect man for me based on what *I* want. In my opinion, submissive men shouldn't have any fantasies other than the desire to please their woman. My advice to guys: Focus on the woman. Forget your fantasies. Make her fantasies yours. I don't care about what turns you on. Thats completely irrelevant. This is about me, not you. Remember your place. You're not being submissive if you tell a woman how to dominate you. You're just being selfish and immature. In femdom, the pro-dominatrix always "obeys" the submissive male by acting out his fantasies. Its pretty much just prostitution in disguise. Like I said, submissive men shouldn't have any fantasies. A real dominant woman wouldn't let him get away with such selfish behavior. Men need to be trained out of their fantasies. The focus should be on the woman at all times.
I often wonder why women frequently aren't into as 'disgusting' fantasies and fetishes as men? I am very lucky in having a FLR with a woman who is intrigued and willing to indulge my fantasies, as I am hers, even when she finds them sick or twisted. Mind you, in many ways she is quite twisted herself! However, the real point I want to make is that it is *not* unhealthy for a woman in a FLR to indulge a man's fantasies, it has to be in context, a good woman will endeavour to honestly extract all her man's buried fantasies and work them into the relationship, or at least say 'no' and why not. I have found that since my fiance has been indulging my fantasies, many of my more extreme ones have gradually diminished or gone altogether. People have fantasies, often they are very taboo, but by being allowed to express them, they cease to dominate ones mind. I no-longer spend hours of every day wasted dwelling on my BDSM fantasies because, by endulging them, my beautiful, wise fiance, has curbed them greatly.
Mikey_adore I'd say this is bad practice and a kin to blackmail to get your mate to do things they find disgusting. How many women of 100 do you think will have the same opinion of their mate when he want to wear women's panties or do anything she finds off. Better set aside some money for the divorce.
There is no blackmail. She has control over 4 of the five 'food groups,' the fifth is not sex, but actually free time, over which she has given my a 50% say in what I do, as long as it fits around what she wants to do. She decided to indulge my sexual fantasies because she realised I wasn't fully disclosing all my sexual thoughts. I told her it was because many of the things I thought I was certain would make her utterly disgusted with me. She insisted, so I shared and, without any further discussion, has begun to include those practises in her play with me. All she said was she didn't find them disgusting, just surprising, though she wouldn't want the same treatment. I never said it was what I needed necessarily, or it was essential to our relationship, because I didn't think it was. Her decision to involve it is a testimony to the strength of our relationship, she thinks no less of me as a result, I am still the same person. She is wise enough to understand the symbological nature of my desires and is a strong enough person to accept that. I wouldn't have put myself in this sort of relationship if I wasn't sure she was 'the one' lol! Note, that I'm not referring to sissification/crossdressing per-say, which are pretty common fantasies and ones that actually many women find amusing if not especially erotic, rather other 'humiliating' practices that I have no desire to discuss on an internet forum! (Its not really part of this sites manifesto to discuss kink, anyway.) However that didn't answer my question, which is my wondering why (from my observations) women have fewer 'extreme' kinks than men? Any thoughts, ladies & gentlemen?
...and more to the point, why they are considered 'harmful' by many people here? To me, that smacks of failure to understand the nature of kink and of healthy sexual fantasy within a relationship...
OK so I am somewhat with Prickly Pear that sissification is bunk but the reality is that for me anyhow, I would be very turned on to be humiliated by my wife....BUT.....THE CAVEAT HERE, is that she would have to want it. My reality is that my wife does NOT want me sissified or humiliated or cucked....and frankly for that last one I am glad as I think the marriage end if she did. As for what she DOES want, service, footrubs/massage, pleasant demeanor, attentiveness are what she likes. For me, this would be enough....so long as she regularly stated to me....perhaps during these behaviors, that she controls my orgasms, that she demands obedience, that this is what I asked for so I am getting it. For me, this would be enough to make me feel totally secure.
I love my wife and I respect her in everything but I do not want to be her slave. Do not understand this with humiliation, sisification, spanking or chastity. I do not want to be humiliated or dressed in women's clothes or get spanked and I definitely do not want any chastity.Det most of this is all about fantasies and it must be difficult to get to it in reality. With us there is no doubt about who's in charge and has the final say, my wife, but I'm not her slave even though I do most of the household and like kissing and massaging her feet. When it comes to cuckolding, I think it might be a good thing if done the right way, women need variety, and that at some point every now and then have other men as lovers can be good, the woman will feel attractive and sought after. However, it should not be done to humiliate the man.
I came to this site for the obvious reasons, but some of what I have been reading here disappoints me. These areas require at least an open mind. I see narrow mindedness, and intolerance of others likes and views. My wife is a professional in the psychology field, we play and fantasize ,we are in love and she enjoys the Sub me, and the part that wants her to tease and humiliate me. It makes her hot. I hate to tell you , but maybe you better accept some women are bright enough to go where the drive takes them/us. she firmly believes the " Homo sum humani nihil a me alienum puto" of Terence, maybe some of the people here should as well. any way ,great forum lots to think about.
Paolo777 I think you might be right. For some this would be OK. Far be it for me to judge. Sometimes I think that this site dissuades us from femdom/flr dark because they are interested in brand exclusivity. No of fence. I like the site but the reality is thast it's a business every bit as much as others are. Their niche is to make for palatable for wives. In this they have a lock. Most women prefer this site....however the reality is for and femdom are linked whether we like it or not, for men anyways. I agree in principal that they are maladaptive to a relationship. I will say this. We should probably stay away from the extreme femdom simply because for the vast majority of us, it is not helpful. As for female authority....it can be enough for me.
I think the whole point of sissification is quite humiliating however, it is also an outlet for him to explore and understand his own feminine nature. I have found when a man understands his own feminine nature, he better understands me, my need and my desires then is willing to delve further into submission. A women who knows how to guide a man towards his own true feminine nature, then provide the space for him to trust it, he then is more willing to move to a deeper level of FLR. He trusts his own feminine while further trusting me. Cuckholding can be a very tricky area. A lot of times submissive men are indeed selfish. Selfishness is something that need to be corrected in the initial "training" period. The question that needs to be asked by the women in the partnership is: Am I doing this to fulfill his fantasies or for my own pleasure. I suggest that the wife/female partner answers that question before they incorporate that into the relationship. I have found that if the female engages to fulfill his fantasies, it does not work, it must truly be from a place from her own desire. When the women arrives at her conclusion to move forward with it, deep listening to her partner is a must. It can either make or break a relationship. Depending upon the personality of the man, there will be issues that arise. It is important for the women to be firm yet allow him room to heal any issues that he is experiencing. A lot of women in FLR do believe that they are being a "slut". If women do feel that way, then I believe that they do have a way to go in healing their own issues regarding societal view of sexual freedom. After all, it is society that labels women and breaking out of that belief system is quite liberating.
This is not a place for men to dump their fantasies or state the obvious - please use the topic as proposed "Humiliation, sisification and cuckolding are they beneficial to anyone?" Thanks all!
Crossdressing is not sissification. I wanted to put my 2cents into this discussion to educate those that don't see or understand a difference between cross dressing and willingly expressing a feminine side and being forced to do so through sissification as a humiliating practice. It's not humiliating to wear women's clothes for me and most css. I sense a strong dislike for cross dressers on this site, which is fine for each individual. But in my case it comes with the rest of the submissive package. To allow a spouse to willingly express a feminine side and support that expression would only solidify the devotion from such a spouse who is willing to commit to your leadership and guidance for the betterment of the relationship. So, if you don't like sissification, that's fine, but keep an open mind so as to not rule out a cross dresser from your consideration for a devoted partner. Just a thought.
Cdpam02 One can express female qualities without dressing as a woman right? Dress-up in costumes might be fun but I fail to see how it expresses anything useful except that you like to wear clothes that make you appear more like a woman.
I take issue with the idea of cuckholding being a way for the husband to prove his desire for his wife to have sexual satisfaction and the only way to do that is for her to find another man to satisfy her sexually. Although, I'm sure this could happen and may be a lifestyle for some, for me personally, When I wanted my wife to experience more personal satisfaction (more O's etc) in the bedroom. The solution was not for her to find another man for sex. For me personally, I just did a little research and educated myself more about how women receive sexual pleasure and ways to bring her to climax and incorporated these into bedroom behaviour. I get a lot more personal satisfaction going out of my way to bring her to climax (even if it can mean less traditional penetrative sex) and she will at times thank me (sometimes only, the real thanks is just watching her enjoying herself). This is to me a better approach to satisfying your wife than just deciding that you cannot satisfy her and she needs to find another man. It may sound hot as a fantasy, but for many (not all) could easily lead the wife to despise and eventually leave her husband for one of the men who is "more satisfying" Fantasy is just that, reality is also just that, and reality is a whole different world. All the men who want them woman to spend time sissyfying them and so on, is the really for her pleasure? and how? it's just your own kinky fantasy and if it really happened you would probably not enjoy it at all past the first talks on the idea.
Guest Two sides to that coin, many cuckolds are impotent or do not want to climax or want to be prevented from climax as a type of personal discipline; the other side is the fantasy which this site considers destructive to relationships unless the couple already has an extremely strong bond and open relationship which can endure - it would take a very special couple. The subject is toxic to most women as women tend to be monogamous (although some percentage admit to having affairs) - see the polls on this site.
Thanks for your reply (BTW, I wrote the above post, but wasn't logged in so it showed a guest and I couldn't find a way to change it) As far as the first side of the coin you mentioned, I guess I could understand more if the male in question was impotent and this was something that could not be treated, or changed. I would think you would have to be very careful though, I think it would be very difficult to keep the destructive emotional aspects of having sex with someone else from occurring. I would hope in this situation there would be a lot of talk both before and after and so on. I would even argue that if impotence was the reason, hiring different male prostitutes might be a better idea as there would be less chance of an emotional conflict for the wife and the male who is having sex with the wife is in he profession of giving women pleasure and would be experienced in this. In the case of the male wanting to be forbidden from climax and so on. I have read many fantasies and so on about this online, but I really do wonder if those getting there rocks off to the fantasy would really be happy if they were consistently denied climax and also forced to watch or whatever while there wife was with someone else, especially the fantasies that involve humiliation and so on from the wife and the other man. It would seem quite possible to me that if this actually became a reality to many, the husband could suffer severe mental problems possibly to the point of suicide as a result. It's somewhat ironic to me that people are j'ing off to this kind of fantasy that which would prevent them from doing the very thing they are doing while reading it. Just my thoughts. I'm glad that this site both acknowledges this lifestyle but also talks about how it can be destructive and especially how actual women view this issue as opposed to men pretending to be women talking about it. As you've probably guessed (seeing you replied to several of my posts. Thanks btw) I am fairly new here. But am really glad that I found this resource. I can only imagine how many 1000s of posts that must have to be deleted daily. Thanks again for your reply. Chris