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I want to make our position against FemDom clear. We are anti-femdom. Here is why: 1. femdom is dominated by commercial interests and pretenders pushing the extremes. 2. femdom was derived from a number of fetishes. 3. there is no clear path to relationship in femdom and 4. femdom moves men away from what most women want. Women want interesting and varietal sex in their relationships and may like some or all of the fetishes in femdom, but sex is not a relationship; and fetish is not real. Further, the brutal and destructive practices in femdom while interesting have no healthy part in vital intimate relationships.
Here is what you can do if you want to share the parts of femdom you find interesting - 1. take the time to reword it to remove fetish jargon, 2. think about the audience you are addressing, 3. remember this site is about relationships led by women. 4. remember we really don`t cover level 4 and beyond because that discussion usually leads to fetish and fantasy.
This site will not ever promote femdom sites or attempt to merge femdom ideas. We don`t condem anyone who likes those things. As Pear says "change your language and you'll change your mind and your ways." We thing Pear has it right!
Author: 2011-12-07 04:51:53 [reply]
Many of thoughtful people have contributed to the authorship of this website. The authors of this website have thought long and hard about the topic of "Why is FemDom destructive to female led relationships and men?". We hope you find our viewpoint helpful and thought provoking
The femdom catering of male fantasies takes men and women farther apart from their understanding of what female relationship is. Men tend to be more aggressive about their fantasy while women tend to shy away from it. Both may find elements fun but by and large it is a distraction from the "relationship" in female led relationships. Femdom seems to focus on sex and power with lovely women dominating ugly men, where female led relationship is about men and women choosing a lifestyle together. Just my opinion. What do you think about it?
Author: 2011-02-20 14:10:11 [reply]
Admin The term "femdom" has been in long use and covers both objectionable (especially to many women) professional and commercial activities as well as many of the practices advocated on this site. For example, see the Retraining page in the Articles section. The terms FLR and Loving Female Authority were invented more recently and have not always been widely used or strictly differentiated from femdom. There are now numerous blogs describing FLRs, some of which call themselves femdom. Many such blogs were started within the last 18 months. Several are run by married women and describe the activities and practices within their marriages. At least one blog was started by the husband and taken over completely by the wife as the FLR level increased. One blog is called femdom101, is really a Level 3 FLR, and does not even have an "adult content" warning. It was started in early 2008, when the only term known to the bloger was "femdom." The woman who runs the blog has several local friends who have trained their husbands similar to hers. The women running the blogs comment on each others' postings and make suggestions to each other. Some bloggers post pictures of their activities. These are not fantasy or professional sites, although there are sites focused on FLRs that do sell books and other items. They are discussions of relationships regardless of whether the term "femdom" is used or not.
Reply by: Nerd 2011-02-22 10:36:04
Nerd Thanks, well said points all. BTW thanks for your contributions to the BBS, everyone will benefit. I think the people behind aboutFLR.com including me are defensive of the term "female led relationship" because none of us really want the dark or commercial side of femdom or BSDM. As a whole, all the women we asked about what level they wanted, want nothing more than level 3 and perhaps play, but I too know several couples in level 4 - but they don`t call it femdom, they just call it life (no name for it). They are not involved in any scene or groups either. We all like the idea of normalizing the conversation and you are adding some reason to that goal.
Reply by: Admin 2011-02-22 11:02:40
Admin thank you for your thought-provoking statement. I appreciate your opinion, but I think what you write is based on pejudices. FemDom only damages relationships and hinders gemale authority if both partners a) focus their attention more on fetishes than on themselves, b) if one of them (usually the woman) is coaxed to to something she does not like and c) if the man submits only during sex and bosses his wife around in everyday life. In THESE cases you are right. But: a) There are FemDom couples who share a very intimate and loving relationship and who regard "kinky stuff" only as an nice addition and not as the main issue in their life. They love each other and they want to be together - no matter what fetishes they engage in. b) Not every woman is opposed to the thought of wearing "kinky outfits", spanking her man and tieing him up. You underestimating women if you thing that they usually shy away from FemDom, some are very enthusiastic about it. This is far away from the situation where a man forces his wife to become the fulfillment of his fantasies and she only agrees because he says so. FemDom is not only a male fantasy. c) There are enough FemDom relationships who are maintained 24/7 - which means that the female is always the leader and the man always the servant. After sex the man is not turning in a despot, no, the FemDom imbalance of powers continues and he continues serving her in a non-sexual way. FemDom can be a lifestyle. So, I think you are a bit too pessimistic when it comes to FemDom. This can be fun (also for the woman), this can be intimate and this can be a mutually satisfying lifestyle. Why condemning something that works for many couple?
Reply by: Cheryl 2011-12-06 17:23:07
PS: Admin After reading the part "What is a female led relationship?" on your homepage I think I should clarify my comment above: By saying femdom I didn't mean commercial domination or pure fetish affairs without feelings. I know you don't like these things and I am not a fan either. I am in a happy marriage and I have no intend to spoil my marriage with superficial sex or with commercial interests. By saying "femdom" I meant the lifestyle you call "Extreme Female Leadership (Level 4)". It is a female led lifestyle that incorporates both love/intimacy and BDSM. So I think we only have semantical differences, but agree on the matter itself. ;)
Reply by: Cheryl 2011-12-06 18:31:19
Cheryl We are careful to separate femdom from FLR because of FLR dark. There are lots of sites where people can enjoy and participate in femdom but this site is abut female led relationships where couples may not have any practice of such things. We find women have an easier time separating the ideas of femdom from FLR because women want loving relationships, where men tend to want utility and extremes. Join us in leaving behind all things femdom and growing a refreshingly new and beautiful relationship model..
Reply by: Randell 2011-12-07 04:12:50
I am not sure it is destructive, I think it is a distraction from what men really want and need. Men want a relationship where they can serve, be led and find satisfaction in control, connection, intimacy and yes in many cases in domination. But not the kind of domination in femdom, real surrender to their mates on an on-going and permanent basis.
Author: 2011-02-21 09:39:41 [reply]
Michael I disagree with you Michael, the images men see of women dommes on line is destructive to relationships and society so it must also be destructive for men. It pressures relationships, and inspired aberrant behavior in men and it designed to be unsatisfying. Men in FemDom can never be satisfied because there are no real needs met. It might work for a jerk off but not in life relationships. Women participating in FemDom likely profit from it financially.
Reply by: Ann 2011-03-03 09:59:40
A wiseman once told me that EVERYONE has something worth listening too and when you listen enough you will get smarter. We value the ideas and opinions of our readers on the topic of "Why is FemDom destructive to female led relationships and men?. "True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information." Winston Churchill (British Orator, Author and Prime Minister during World War II. 1874-1965)
my wife was doing ok with this site till she read this http://www.aboutflr.com/articles/Retraining-reprogramming-growing-your-FLR%20man-with-a-new-self-image.html she said that had to be written by a man and it just caters to fantasy
Author: 2011-03-28 08:59:50 [reply]
Guest Yes men wrote that with the help of several women. It is better when she can have what she wants to make her happy, if she is not into this then that is okay. She may not want anything above level 1 - most women are like that. We think she is wise and can look past it to get and give fulfilment in your relationship.
Reply by: 2011-03-28 15:31:09 [reply]
Randell Guest: I read that same section and I have to admit that it hit me dead in my fantasy section. When I re-read that section I took away a different meaning. Women by socialization, I am no expert, always “have” to entice men. I am here at the office and one young lady, on her way out of the office, just said” I have to get my high heels.” They are “required”, with a tilt of the head, a touch of the hair, a submissive smile to attract the male. I have begun watching women with different eyes. Rather than being interested in the seduction (being seduced) I am interested in the mechanics of the seduction (watching how and what they do). With my female led I have tried to employ these techniques, I don’t stroke my hair but I will take a more acquiescent approach, to see how it makes me feel, (walk a mile in her shoes). To be quite honest it is eye opening and really a very hard way to have to approach people. gat1207
Reply by: 2011-03-31 08:56:47
Guest There is nothing wrong with social engineering - the army does it with every new recruit. It is a way move people towards a mode that fits a job.
Reply by: 2011-03-31 09:34:50 [reply]
To me I think it is difficult for many women to be put in the role of 'in charge' and want a man top do that. The caveat is that this is not true for all women... some do like to be in charge and want to be in control and that level is individual. as for men the same is true, and some men just feel more comfortable in a role where they do not have to 'perform' and be MR. MACHO all the time. For women who like to be in charge that they should find a mate that is willing and happy to relinquish the control that she needs and desires. I do agree that much of what is happening here in men seeking Dominant Women does very much feed into a mans fantasy and is very much fed by the porn so available on the internet. Some, like me have been this way since childhood, (I have not been an abused child), as opposed to those who have come to this life stile through fantasy, perpetrated by porn, are not on equal footing. There is a distinct deference. As with homosexuality some are born that way, some are trained, that and for some it is a way of avoiding man/woman issues. Respectfully submitted, eueltell
Author: 2011-07-17 10:49:00 [reply]
Eueltell I don't know that it is as one size fits all as your post makes it seem. Your experience might resonate for some, and be more off target for others. I think that for most men and women, a point often overlooked is that 'control' can express itself in a very different way when originating from a woman vs a 'traditional' man. For an FLR woman, it is my thought that I would seek their leadership more than I would seek their control, if you take that distinction. To me, leadership is a much broader skillset encompassing communication, influencing, and facilitation, as well as having the final word. The notion of control seems pretty binary to me, which leads me to associate it with a male perspective, regardless of what gender seeks it.
Reply by: 2011-08-22 04:07:28 [reply]
I think it is destructive because it taints the idea of women leading men. It makes it sexual, kinky and seedy. As if all women who lead men want him to be submissive or all women who lead men are dominant (as in whips and chains)
Author: 2011-10-01 06:25:57 [reply]
Guest I think you are missunderstanding the terms "submissive" and "dominant". If a person leads another and expects the other person's obedience this leading person is automatically dominant. And obedience is often rooted in a submissive attitude toward the leader. A woman who leads is not necessarily someone who wears leather and bounds her husband with chains, but she is dominant. In addition: You forget that many FemDom couples are not only engaging in female domination in the bedroom during sex, but also in everyday life. They life FemDom 24/7. She is not just the fulfillment of his sexual fantasies, but the leader in his whole life. So don't worry about FemDom being only sexual. Since sexuality ia a part of every healthy relationship, sexuality is also part of FemDom. But real FemDom is more than just sex. Greetings, Cheryl
Reply by: 2011-12-06 17:05:05 [reply]
I think this site has gone overboard in creating its (not quite fully stated) definition of FemDom (camel case) and rejecting what it defines. Whether you and others (who might not share your definition) call it FemDom, femdom, or whatever else, it has considerable overlap with FLR. Everybody has fantasies, sexual and non-sexual, and there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with a man having sexual fantasies and, together with his wife, finding mutual benefit in having her feed his fantasies. According to the research underlying "A Billion Wicked Thoughts," mens' eroticism revolves around body parts (both hers and his) and womens' eroticism revolves around romantic relationship details. So, body parts and romantic relationship details are naturally involved, and if they want to include kink there is nothing wrong with that. I can understand your concern about commercial porn, but I think you are too quick to decide that some other web site or book or discussion fits your definition of FemDom and implies commercial porn or other inappropriate subject matter. It might more useful for you to seek more nuanced criteria and a more nuanced approach to applying them.
Author: 2011-12-06 18:20:04 [reply]
Nerd Yes, I can understand how you feel and how hard it is for you to separate the two ideas. Many want femdom who come here to this site but; this site is anti-femdom because of who rules it, how it effects people, and how it limits participation in healthy FLRs. This site is not about fetish or fantasy, it does not cater to sex or sexual expression. The site deals with relationships; led by females in a narrow range of the 5 food groups. There are lots of site for femdom where you can write anything you want and participate in it. There is no need for this site to become one of them. There is a difference between femdom and FLR and we are careful to maintain it. We appreciate your ideas but we are putting distance between sex sites and this one.
Reply by: 2011-12-07 04:05:44 [reply]
Randell slight correction Randell, sorry - we do cater to healthy sexual practices in a PG or PG-13 kind of way, especially when that practice crosses the boundary from being sexual to being practical - such as chastity. We really don`t discuss the practices of level 4 relationships much because of how "outside the norm" they appear.
Reply by: 2011-12-07 04:18:58
Nerd I want to remind everyone of why we limit communication from men here at aboutFLR.com; it is because men have a tendency to the extreme and in no time at all we would cross boundary after boundary pursuing fetish and fantasy. That said, men are actually hurting themselves and their enjoyment of FLR by driving women away - the vast majority of women want nothing to do with femdom and there is no separating the commercial from the other. What we are asking from you Nerd and everyone else is to change your language and move away from sex to a discussion of relationships. This would be one of those time; negative punishment, and positive reinforcement would be used to make a course correction and behavior modification would help men follow women.
Reply by: 2011-12-07 04:27:53 [reply]
Nerd and BothSides There are no blurred lines gentlemen; as you would presume, there is 'relationship' and there is 'fetish'. One may practice fetish in a relationship, but one cannot be in a fetish. So those of you who want all those things presumed by the purveyors of that fetish can continue to enjoy what you want and be at peace. This site is about relationships first and foremost. Many of the members enjoy fetishes, some do not. We don`t get involved in those areas just the ones that promote healthy and productive relationships. This is not a sex site. Yes I agree, people in relationship tend to have sex, but that is not really our topic. The plain truth is many men who come here are addicted to porn and that porn is female domination (ie FemDom).
There is nothing inherent in chastity that is a fetish as stated above. It has been used from time in memorial and it has it`s place in FLR. Most of FLR resides between 1 and 3.5 and those people are looking for solutions to perplexing issues that chastity hold promise of remedy. I have always thought that the two of you who have contributed much to the forums have wanted to blur the lines to serve a purpose which you have. Whatever that purpose, we on this site are moving away from extremes and level 4 sex as a topic. It makes most of the founders and the volunteers of this site consider carefully why they started this site and wether they want to continue. Most of them are rather normal successful citizens who broached this topic on this site to help others because they love strong women leading men as a lifestyle.
The language we use is very important because it both defines us and separates us. FemDom as a term and practice; is a fetish not a way of life; not a lifestyle, nor a healthy relationship of any kind. Yes fantasy is healthy as is sex play; but not as a lifestyle. Who would in his right mind stand up and say that FemDom really helped me become successful, FemDom helped me to a good relation and excellent health? FemDom focuses on our baser natures and on that erotic urge men get when confronted with strong women. Yes FLR has that same feeling too in some ways; but FLR makes little of it compared to the weightier matters of life. No one here promotes or profits from FemDom, and I personally feel it less desirable than a real women with skills and talents leading a man and enjoying a wonderful relationship together. So let's end this once and for all. FemDom is NOT a healthy lifestyle because it is a fetish and therefore no lifestyle at all.
Reply by: 2012-04-14 21:52:17
SusanM88 I think you are trying to draw bright-line boundaries in an area where it is becoming more and more difficult to draw boundaries like that. If you look at some of the sites listed under the "classified ads" section, and at some of the sites they link to and follow, you will see that the boundaries are becoming very fuzzy with lots of overlap. Yes, there are sites and ideas and uses of words that are very clearly in the commercial, fetish, porn category. There are non-commercial groups close to that category as well. But then there are an increasing number of other sites and ideas and uses of words that are not in that category but adapt some of their ideas and blend them with some of yours. Some are much closer to you and some are further away. And you can't get completely away from the biology-driven psychological differences in the genders and the resulting ways people react to each other. It would probably be easier to take the situation as it is and build from there rather than trying to draw bright lines where they are becoming less likely to work.
Reply by: 2012-04-14 14:18:48
SusanM88 An intersting comment in a forum entitled "Why is FemDom destructive to female led relationships and men?", on a site that defines "FemDom" as "commercial fetish sex". I note the homepage of your site promotes the use of chastity; a fetish explored in many FemDom relationships. Indeed I see your point about seperating the sex talk from the relationship talk, however I believe you are overlooking the fact that sex and relationships are synonymous and moreso are a healthy part of each other. The idea of sex and the healthy pursuit of fetishes with a likeminded partner should hardly be demonized, even if there is no place here for the specific discussion of such things. I would imagine it is the exploration of these desires that leads many men here in the first place. Perhaps FemDom is an easy gateway for some as it takes away the feeling of guilt due to the loss of control, 'I was tied up and made to be submissive'. I believe it is that paradigm that is damaging to the fundamentals of FLR, but that is not common of everyone who enjoys fetish/FemDom type activities.
Reply by: 2012-04-13 07:23:24